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tonight, when wild animals attack. a woman in dead in a lion cage in a sanctuary of big cats. jack hanna tells me how it can happen. >> exclusive, inside this country's illegal gun trade. >> what about stronger gun laws? >> they won't help. >> they won't help? >> no. >> why? >> because criminals don't care about gun laws. >> so the book of ayles of fox new chief calls the president lazy, the vice president, quote, as dumb as an ashtray, and newt gingrich a word i cent repeat. >> and the king in his court. from muhammad ali to mike tyson to hugo chavez, don king joins me to talk about his surprising connections. this is "piers morgan tonight."

>> good evening. you're looking live at the senate floor where an extraordinary filibuster has been going now for nine hours. also much more, including our exclusive investigation of gun trafficking and my sit-down with don king, perhaps the least man you would expect to have a personal connection to hugo chavez. we begin with breaking news on that deadly lion attack in florida. a female intern was killed in a lion's cage at the project survival cat haven. the lion was shot and killed. he had been raised at the sanctuary from the age of 8 w k weeks. there's no word yet on what may have led to the attack. >> our thoughts and prayers go out to our friend and family and to her family at this time and this trying time. >> i want to bring in a man who

knows more about big cats than just about everybody else. jack hanna. first, a woman who worked with the sanctuary where the lion in today's deadly attack lived. she's even been in the cage with the lion. she joins me via skype. you have personal knowledge of the sanctuary and indeed of the lion at the center of the attack today who has sadly been put down. tell me about your experience. was there anything in your encounter with this particular cat which made you feel that there may be a problem down the line? >> no, there was no indication when i was in the cage, in inenclosure with cous cous, you know, that made me feel uncomfortable or, you know, i didn't see any type of aggressive behavior or anything that i needed to be worried about while i was in with him. >> we're looking at footage here i think of you with cous cous.

when you were walking around the sank wectuary itself, did it seo you to be a well-run sanctuary. were there issues about security, perhaps the level of training for the staff there? >> absolutery. it was really well run. very professional. i i tell you that it's a wonderful, beautiful place. where, you know, anyone can go and learn awesome things about all these wonderful cats. >> just going to take a listen here to some of the footage. this is actually you interacting with the lion. again, to remind viewers, the lion that killed this young female intern today. let's take a listen to some of this. >> going over to the african lions and going into the den. >> this is cusa. he's a north african lion. he's still only 2 1/2 to almost he'll be 3 in november. his mane takes about four years to come in, so he's got a little

mane to go. he's about 500 pounds. the north africans were killed off in the wild in about the 1920s so all the ones you see are in captivity. >> so dale, how much food does he eat a day? >> about eight pounds a day. ever grab a lion by the fatail? >> just today. >> i believe he was about 350 pounds. obviously, that was a pretty happy bit of video footage there of an apparently normal lion who looked to be in a normal habitat, all beit in captivity. in terms of the intern, would you have expected somebody who was an intern to be inside the cage? >> you know, i really don't know the circumstances, but i can tell you that my interaction over at project survival cat haven, they have been

proprietary professional and run their protocol strictly. it looked like we were having a lot of fun, however, during that shoot, there were many people outside of the cage. if you can see in the video, the door was open, and i was very close in proximity of that along with another area that i would have been protected. so there were a lot of protocol and things that were going on behind the scenes, even though it looks like a very fun video. >> let me bring in jack hanna now. jack, obviously, terrible tragedy today for the poor young woman who lost her life, for the lion that's had to be shot and killed. i did a bit of research earlier about the number of animals in captivity that killed in the u.s. since 2007. there have been nine people killed by a variety of animals between bears, tigers, elephants, and painted dogs. only one by a lion. that was the incident today, so this is very unusual.

first lion death in at least six years. were you shocked when you heard this? and from what you have gleaned, what do you think may have happened here? >> you knower, piers, it's a shk anytime anyone loses a live. this was a nice place. i'm confused, was there anyone with her when this happened? as far as an intern or a volunteer, there had to be somebody there who had to see it. no one would go in there with a lion by themselves. i had to pick up the arm of a boy who lost his arm inten 10 where i raised lions in zoos. when i see a lion in the wild, they can take an animal out in less than ten seconds. this is a wild animal, and sanctuaries are very important in this country. my understanding is this is a very nice sanctuary, i have never been there, but the question is, would an intern be

in there by herself with a lion? and everybody is waiting to hear the answer. >> dale anderson, the founder, said an intern entered the enclosure where she was attacked and injured. the lion was shot and killed. no detail about whether anyone else was there. tell me about lions in captivity generally, jack. are they in by nature when they're in captivity, would they be overtly aggressive or more of a defense mechanism if they felt somebody was intruding in their space. >> depending on how long the girl had been there. if she knew the lion, that's one thing, but still, they're wild animals, end of story, no matter what anyone says, they are wild animals. we need these sanctuaries. they have strict laws and all that type of thing, but a lion is called the king of beasts for a certain reason. this was a male lion in the wild, usually the female will do

the kill or whatever it might be, but in this situation, again, i tried to read every i have read about this in the last hour and i can't seem to find anything else out. we go back to why it was there. a lion is a powerful animal. they can take down a caped buffalo in less than 15 seconds or less than that. so you're deeping with something here that is, you know, dangerous. i'm not going to say like a loaded gun. i don't need to get letters on this, but let's say like a grenade going off. who knows what could turn an animal. might have seen something, heard something. you never know with a wild animal what can happen. in our park at the columbus zoo, we might raise them to three or six months, and we had tigers at three or six months, no one goes in with them unless the veterinarian is there. now, do i use a cheetah for some of my shows? i have been asked that question already this evening.

yes, i do. we have two people with two different collars. a cheetah is a wildcat, but it's also not a very powerful cat. we try to educate people. >> when you brought the cheetah onto my set, i remember, it was a fully grown cheetah. the was extremely powerful. and i was quite shocked actually to be that close up to a cat that size. first time i had been in such proximity. i could sense real raw power, and that wasn't a lion. it only makes me imagine what a lion would feel like in close proximity. let me ask you this, jack, what it will do, it will raise the debate again about whether a fully grown lion like this beast should ever be in captivity in this way. clearly, it's an ongoing debates. what is your answer to people who say they shouldn't be in captivity for a start? >> the point is in this world, they're there. and 99.99 of them come from other parts, not the wild.

what we have done is a little over $$42 million was spent on animals in the wild. the research we have going on in the wild, what we learn about lions is very important. the lion is an ambassador to their species. the zoological parks today, most animals live better than most people throughout the world. we continue to debate this, and this isn't going to phase the columbus zoo or any other zoo in the country. we're going to have our lions, to education people, and tell people this is a wild beast. lions have disappeared. lions have gone down the tube, since i was in africa, we have lost 60% of the lion population in africa. we cannot continue that or the lions will not be there anywhere in the next 20 years. that's why we have the parks to teach us more about the lion and how we can save the lion. >> jenny, final thought from you. this is just a sad day all

around, obviously for the poor woman and also for the lion and everyone really involved. >> the whole thing is sad, piers. the family, the woman, the gentleman who owns that sanctuary is suffering just as much as the family. yes, we have these things happen. yes, there are people who might be in a nascar race, but again, the analogy is very simple. we will continue our work with these animals in the zoological parks accredited throughout the countries and the sanctuaries, wut them, we would not have any more lions in the wild, in a museum or a painting or movie anywhere. >> and jenny, a final word from you? >> you know, my thoughts and prayers go out to the family of this young woman, and obviously, she loved animals. and you know, a place like survival -- project survival's cat haven is really important. it's important for people to go there and experience and see these animals because they can't see them in the wild. when you get that experience,

you really care about these animals, and you want to make a difference. so, you know, my thought is, you know, support these types of educational places. >> jenny and jack, thank you both very much for joining me. >> thank you. coming up next, roger ayles uncensor uncensored, what he's saying about obama, gingrich, and more. i'll ask my all-star panel about the stinging comments, and the filibuster still going on the floor, now into its ninth hour. that's three times more than me! [ female announcer ] ensure clear. nine grams protein. zero fat. in blueberry/pomegranate and peach. so i can't afford to have germy surfaces. but after one day's use, dishcloths can redeposit millions of germs. so ditch your dishcloth and switch to a fresh sheet of new bounty duratowel. look! a fresh sheet of bounty duratowel leaves this surface cleaner than a germy dishcloth, as this black light reveals.

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so, i'm working on a cistern intake valve, and the guy hands me a locknut wrench. no way! i'm like, what is this, a drainpipe slipknot? wherever your business takes you, nobody keeps you on the road like progressive commercial auto. [ flo speaking japanese ] [ shouting in japanese ] we work wherever you work. now, that's progressive. call or click today. i come to the floor of the senate in great admiration of the senator from kentucky and what he's trying to do to get information. all we're asking to do -- >> following live the senate filibuster for john brennan. rand paul has been leading that charge and since noon today, he's been talking pretty much nonstop. taking a quick break, but he was

there a few seconds ago, vowing to speak until he can no longer speak. let's bring in our all-star panel, ryan and mccay koppens. welcome to you both. it's a fascinating thing going down in the senate. very unusual. they don't have to do this anymore, but rand paul is making a big statement. the statement he's making is he doesn't like what mr. holder is doing in relation to saying if i want to use a drone against an american citizen in america, then i can do that. i have the right to do that. he says that is wrong. unconstitutional. what is your reaction to what's happening today? >> it's an interesting moment because there's always been this moment of civil libertarians in congress who argued that the military way overstretches their bounds and crosses boundaries in terms of what they can do. this is kind of a moment. this is where several libertarians have arrived on the national stage. cnn is recovcovering it wall to. all the networks are. >> i feel like i'm totally on

rand paul's side for what he's doing. i'm not necessarily agreeing. what he's doing is democracy at its best and he's a kerr courag politician making a stand. here's a thing about the debate. i agree with him completely about transparency and the lack of transparency by the obama administration about drones is unacceptable, but on the issue of whether a government should be able to use a drone against an american citizen in america, to me is slightly muddier, that debate, because you know, the police, the military, are authorized to use extremely powerful weaponry if they wish to. against an american citizen in america. what is the difference, really, other than drone sounds scarier, about the ability to use a drone? >> that is a good point. and sometimes we talk about drones, you know, on the battlefield. what is the difference between firing a mortar shell at an enemy versus a drone? i think we are a little hung up

of the technology itself rather than the specific instances when it's used. as you point out and lots of people have pointed out today, we -- the government has the power to kill us right under certain circumstances. but the very specific questions he's asking is the case of an al qaeda sympathizer that was taken out, say, when the government says they have a right to take out in pakistan. could they do the same thing, essentially assassinate someone on american soil? that's one of the questions he's trying to get some clarity about. to the shock of a lot of people, the administration has been a little fuzzy about that. >> not a surprise. let's come back to you, mckay. if it's okay to assassinate american citizens in pakistan for grievous offenses against the state, what's the difference really between doing it there or doing it in texas? >> right, i think the shocking moment that kind of brought this all to a head was when rand paul

asked and senator ted cruz was asked the same question, if there was an american citizen sitting at a cafe and the government felt for some reason that this person had to be assassinated, could they use a drone to take that person out at a cafe? that's a very vivid image, right? that's a question that i think, you know, eric holder actually hedged. he said i don't think that would be appropriate but i don't think it would be unkauncconstitution. it shocked a lot of people. >> that's the hedging on that question that most people would shake their head and say, my god, of course the governmenttient be able to do that. and maybe that's the authority the government is asserting for itself by being so vague. i'm with you, piers, i don't care what your politics are, it's easy to be cynical, but what he's doing should be admired. he's making substantive arguments for going on eight hours now, and you know, this is the way a filibuster should work --

>> i agree. i think we should all salute rand paul's right to do this. let's move quickly to this roger ayles furor that's brogue up today. books pouring out of every possible sphere. authorized, unauthorized, you name it. very controversial stuff in the authorized one, which is writ n written, an official biography. he's the head honcho at fox news, and he seems to be letting everybody have it. he calls joe biden, he says i have a soft spot for him. i like him, but he's as dumb as an ashtray. he calls the president, barack obama, lazy. he calls newt gingrich a prick. this is the stuff of tabloid lurid headlines for about a week, which i'm sure you won't care about, but let's discuss roger ailes. a, is he worth all these

biographies? b, what do you think his lasting legacy will be? >> on the first question, he's definitely worth a biography or two. he's had incredible influence on the news media. he's a worthy subject and has had impact. the second, i said i wasn't cynical about what rand paul was doing. i'm a little more cynical about what roger ailes is doing. he has every right to do it, this legacy burnishing part of his life. if you look at the article "vanity fair" posted today, most of the anecdotes were about ailes is besides the quotes you quoted, the anecdotes with were him with his children, not living to see his kids grow up because he's older than his kids. this is rouger ailes trying to get out in front of a much tougher than going to come out later in the year. and you know, there's probably room for both of these books.

>> let me bring in mckay. he's a fascinating figure, roger. i'm a big fan of his. whether you agree with what he's done or not, he's a fantastic television producer. he's produced a cracking news network. it has a right wing slant, everyone knows that, but you can't argue with success. my view is if you don't like it, you don't have to watch fox. >> he's probably one of a handful of the most influential republicans in the country. you watch fox news, that is the face of conservatism right now. >> and if they turn on you, as sarah palin and others have found, it's history. >> yeah, newt gingrich, rick santorum both complained they lost the republican primaries because fox news favored mitt romney. that's something republicans believe and they know roger ailes is the chief there, kind of the king maker. >> one quote is about rupert murdoch. does rupert like me? i think so, but it doesn't matter. when i go up to the magic room in the sky every three months,

if my numbers are right, i get to live, if not, i am killed. on god's politics he says, well, hell, if god's a liberal, that's his business, but i doubt very much he is. he's got a good heart. he says he. very sexist. anyway, gentlemen, thank you both very much. >> when we come back, a cnn exclusive. inside gun trafficking. a confidential informant who said tougher laws won't sto the sale of illegal guns. tomorrow night, the lion king. >> tell me why you have gone from ldog to lion? >> i wanted to make music that could possibly get me in the white house or in a big position where i could say something. >> you don't hear people going out doing crazy crimes on marijuana. >> celebrities. >> fame is a lethal drug. you have to know how to contain it and not abuse it.

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now to a cnn exclusive, inside the illegal gun trade. poppy harlow had a rare opportunity to sit down with two men on both sides. one involved in illegal gun trafficking for years who became an confidential informant. the other, an atf informant who talks about how easy it is to get a gun. the senate judiciary committee is scheduled to vote on a revived version of the stop illegal trafficking of firearms and there is some hope there would be action. you have met two people, one on the trafficking side, now an informa informant, the other from the atf. tell me first about the informa informant. >> we wanted to hear first hand from someone who has been a middleman getting these guns from point a to point b, and we'll hear from that man. he stole his first gun at 4 years old from a gas station. he's been doing this for decades.

he ended up buying guns from an atf undercover agent. went to jail, came out, a and flipped and is an informant for them. we altered his voice and his image to protect his life because he's on the street right now. i sat down and talked to him about how it happens and i started with the day he got caught. >> i gave ten ounces of cocaine, and he gave me the guns. >> he gave you the guns? >> yeah. >> why did you want the guns? for what? >> they were automatic weapons, had silencers on them. and that's what i was looking for. >> did you ever kill anyone? >> that i can't answer. >> right now, the people that are in your circle, are they illegally trafficking guns? >> yes. the people i know in florida, north carolina, you can get guns anywhere. >> how do they do it?

>> they have people that are elderly, husband and wife or husband and girlfriend, in a motor home. and they have guns in the motor home. and they drive it to new york. >> in a motor home? an elderly husband and wife hide guns in their motor home and drive them up from florida to new york? >> yeah. >> what's an average load? >> two cases. >> how much would they make? >> they would make $5,000. >> $5,000? and this happens all the time? >> yeah. >> how do you communicate with one another to arrange the buy? >> there's ways. people talk to people, text them. but they don't use the word gun. for instance, firecrackers. >> so they call the guns firecrackers? >> yeah. or firepower. >> what if your friends ask you to help them get guns? what do you say? >> well, if i want to put them in jail, i would say yes.

>> do you think the penalties out there are tough enough for gun trafficking? >> no. >> no? >> no. >> what should they be? >> life. >> life? >> yes. that will make people think about if i get caught with this gun, or if i traffic guns, i'll go down for life. >> do you think that america, the government, is losing its war on guns? trying to get them off the street? >> yeah, if a criminal wants a gun, there's people there that supply them everywhere. so they can obtain a gun at anytime. >> what about stronger gun laws? >> that won't help. >> it won't help? >> no. >> why? >> because criminals don't care about the gun laws. there are three businesses that will never die. women, drugs, and alcohol. and now there's guns.

>> he told me that the most he's made off a tip is $5,000. and the atf tells me he's never given them a bad tip. we talk a lot about the iron pipeline. in the south, the gun laws are weaker than the north, so the price is highest where we're sitting in new york. it's this pipepline back and forth, back and forth. >> this is where i find it so frustrating trying to grasp how the american gun laws work because to me it's obvious palpable nonsense that you can have some states with completely relaxed gun laws and the states neck to them have really tough ones and all people can carry a van and bring them over. i mean, to me, you've got to have federal laws. they have got to apply everywhere so that it's illegal to do this kind of thing. >> and certain senators and congressman and women will take issue about that because it's about state rights so the body in charge on a federal level is atf. we sat down with an atf agent in

washington to talk about why they can't get in front of this. they don't deny it. i want you to take a listen to our conversation with atf. how easy is it for a criminal to get a gun? >> extremely easy. >> how are these guns run? >> any means of transportation, conveyance, planes, trains, automobiles. have you ever ridden a bus? >> yes. >> ever been searched getting on a bus? >> no. >> for $5, you can get to new york city on a bus. and unfortunately, there's not enough -- there's not as many atf agents and dea agents monitoring the transportation industry. >> atf calls the private sale of guns through classified ads or online, for example, a huge problem. >> it's very illegal. obviously, the individual selling the firearm does not have the ability to run a criminal background check. >> so how is that legal?

are you fighting that? is that something you would like to see be illegal? >> i can't comment on that. >> why? >> we enforce what laws are on the books. >> you can't tell me what laws are needed to make the streets safer? >> i would love to. >> what is interesting is this is the agency that is mandated with getting illegal guns off the streets, and yet you guys can't comment on what you think you need. >> i agree. i agree. i think the american public knows what we need. i think that the numbers are out there, the amount of agents we have. we don't have many agents. we have just over 2,000 special agents that cover the entire country. >> the informant told me the guys that are running these guns aren't really afraid of you guys. they're not really afraid of law enforcement. why is that? >> because we're so few and far

between out there. they just roll the dice. >> roll the dice. >> they just roll the dice. >> so obviously, i tried to nail down with him exactly what he needs. it appears they don't want to get in front of the white house. they work for the administration. they told me, you know, we work for the administration. we can't lobby congress on this, but people want answers. and these are the guys federally on the street in charge of this. >> two fascinating interviews. congratulations on that and keep going with it. i found them both incredibly disspiriting. i think the trafficker is right. you can now add guns to women, drugs, alcohol, as a war that america is simply losing. >> but he did say life sentences. he thinks life sentences for trafficking would make a huge difference. tomorrow, congress will start debating a trafficking law. s so we will possibly see a big change to that. they could have 25 years for trafficking one gun. that's what we could see. >> pop a, thank you very much. >> when we come back, a man who thinks i want to take away his guns.

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be bold, be courageous.

please support background checks. thank you very much. >> gabby giffords today speaking out for gun control at the site in tucson where she was critally injured in the mass shooting that kills six people. like me, she thinks tlr rr too many guns in america. our next guest disagrees. ben ferguson believes anything that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. >> want to start with this story coming out of nelson in georgia where city councillors have given approval for a proposal requiring a mandate for the head of every household to own a fire arm. >> i think that if someone kicks in your back door you better have more than 911 to protect your family. >> you wouldn't agree with mandating this? >> absolutely not, if you don't want to have a gun, lord knows i don't want you to have a gun. why would i want a human being

who is terrified of it, doesn't want to learn how to use it, doesn't want to go practice with it, thinks it's an object that's going to get off the table and kill somebody, i don't want that. >> we have started well. >> we can go down hill from here though. >> let's talk about background checks. dan rather said he had talked to vice president biden that very day quietly who had indicated they might not even get progress on universal background checks. do you support universal background checks? >> i think it's okay if you want to have background checks on someone who is going to buy and sell guns. i think it's a west of time if it's a single shot 22 rifle. and the guy you had, the informant, he said background checks will not stop the bad guys from getting the guns. i had a gun to my head, they were pointed at me and shot at me. neither of those guns would have been affected in any way if

there war a background check. >> how do you know that? >> i know they were already convicted criminals who were already breaking the law by owning a gun. they were not allowed to own a gun by the laws that are not working now. >> you could almost use that argument for any criminal activity at all. criminals never obey the law. of course they don't, they're criminals. it doesn't mean you shouldn't try and make it as difficult as possible for criminals to get their hands on firearms. >> this is where i'm in favor of actually having a law that's going to make a real impact and keep people safe. >> what would you do? i i want there to be laws to go after people who commit crimes with guns and go after the people who do run those guns because that's the core problem we have here. look at the background checks now. look at the fbi numbers. 1% actually got denied. you want to know why? and people are shocked, maybe they're not working. no, because law-abiding citizens are the ones who want to have

the background check. if you're someone who is going to break the law, the last thing you want to do is give your fingerprints to get a gun. >> i agree with that. i think it's worse than that. i think 80,000 lied on their background check, and barely any of them got prosecuted. >> that's exactly my point that you're making for me tonight. >> i agree with you. i agree with more law enforcement. we're reaching some points of consensus. here's the sticking point where i come from on iswhich is the assault weapons ban that was there before. and the fact that at the moment, politicians are telling me there's no chance of getting it through again. >> it's not going to happen. that's my point. >> why are you so keen to maintain the availability of what many see as military-style assault weapons? >> because -- >> for civilian population. >> i don't see them as a military style. i see that as someone who doesn't know a gun and fearmongering. i know what a bad guy looks like with a gun, and it doesn't matter which gun he has at that point. this is my other thing. you know the list that dianne

feinstein came out with, the wall behind her with all of these guns. these are the guns. why did they name those guns? they're hoping the next time something happens, they say, we would have banned that gun. here's my point, the guns that were used against me, they weren't on their special list. what happens to all those crimes? okay. >> if you have a law, this is my main point -- >> how many guns are currently banned as it is in. >> in this country? depends if you have a pistol grip, a sliding stock. >> there are other 50 types of gun control already in existence in america. do you support all of those? >> i don't know if i support all of them, and the reason why i say this is because i think some of them are repetitive. ia look at columbine. 22 gun laws specifically, more than 100 laws were broken, but more than 22 gun laws were broken there. if you add another one on there, is it going to fix the problem? no. i think we have --

>> how do you know? >> because i think if you're not prosecuting the guys who are committing these crimes, if you're noting have a background for mental health, that's where i look and say when they're dealing with mental health in washington, d.c. right now i'm all in favor of that because there's a huge -- you want to talk about a loophole. it's not the guns on the black market. it's the loophole of the mentally insane people, which by the way, the guy who pulled the trigger on me was declared mentally incompetent to stand trial. i would rather have laws to have an impact at this point in time. >> i agree with what you say there. we agree on a number of things. >> you're coming around. i like this. >> i haven't changed at all. i feel very strongly there are too many guns period, and i would like to see that reduced, but i think this kind of debate is constructive. it worries me when i hear that vice president biden thinks they

might not even get background checks. >> this is where washington if they're listening tonight needs to pay attention. if dianne feinstein would stop being extreme and other people on the other side would stop being extreme and we look at the core of the problem, which is not having the prosecution. you shoot somebody and you miss, you know what the average time in jail is? 4.3 years and that's if you're a second-time offender, you spend 4.3 years in jail. you tell me if that's a threat to somebody. you get rewarded for being a bad shot. >> we're actually starting to mag sense, so i'm going to have to cut the interview off. good to see you. >> look who is here, the flag-waving don king joins me live in an exclusive interview about his extraordinary relationship with hugo chavez. that's coming up next. that's three times more than me! [ female announcer ] ensure clear. nine grams protein. zero fat. in blueberry/pomegranate and peach.

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>> my brother. >> yes, my brother. >> i'm going to talk to president bush and i'm going to make certain that he'll moderate with you so we can straighten out a lot of things. surprising video of the week perhaps.

don king with hugo chavez from 2004. he was a former body guard for don king. that's when they became friends. welcome to you. i want to talk to you about your relationship with two evil dictators, hugo chavez and roger ailes. who do you want to start with? >> i love them both. hugo chavez is a great man because he helped the poor, the underprivileged, the people of venezuela, they love him. he's one of their masses and he can deal with the classes, but he was a guy that was a tried, trued, tested representative of the people, and he loved the people he represented. >> how did you feel about him attacking the president, the united states, in the way that he did? >> i didn't think that was a good thing to do because i love george walker bush, as you have seen in the tape. but the thing is, you know, i gave that tape to the aides of george walker bush when he was

trying to apipeal to him to let him know he wanted to be friends with america. he came off the street, an army lieutenant, and he works his way up through acclimation to be president of the country, goes to jail, gets out of jail, and is re-elected because he's helping the people. he took doctors to the hills, not bringing them -- the poor to the clinic, he took the clinic to them. and he continued to rule and work with that type of a thing, so it's going to be a great loss to venezuela, a great loss to the world. a wonderful guy, you know. everybody gets the stereotype images, they play a great part in this thing, and this is what is happening, and i hear on your show some of the things you're going to say, and segue in, let you know just what it is, that image. you said he talked to the pope, you see all of the different leaders of the world, all they do is talk about the ones doing wrong. that he was supplying drugs, he was trafficking with the

terrorists, everything else, but when he's with the good guys, they don't say anything because of the sen saengzalism. >> let's talk about roger ailes. what do you make about the affect fox news has had on american politics and american society? >> roger ailes is a genius. he's a guy that knows how to manipulate the public, knows how to work, and he beat out cnn for about four or five months with the ratings and things in bringing the news, but he's a victim of the same thing that everyone's a victim of, is the color barrier. if you have been embedded in talk with the black is bad or anyone nonwhite is bad and he goes in there, so the stereotype images of blacks in america, they're lazy. >> he called the president, barack obama, he's never done a day's work in his life and he's lazy, which is offensive. >> it's offensive, but it's normal, and it really is want a shock to me. after you talk to millions of

whites, they're the victim of the same thing, exploitation, nietzsche said exploitation gets it all. you against me, me against you, then they exploit us both, the guy with the money. is the thing here that you're working, coming up and saying the same thing, we have to knock that color barrier out because the color barrier says you're lazy, lethargic, you can't rise to the akaz, you all lie, cheat, and steal. you're shiftless, worthless, no account. this is what colin powell was saying on the news before the election, and he said the same thing. what's the next word after shiftless, worthless and no account. all of these are deeply embedded propaganda things, but there's a time to change. you have to relinquish that. move on. >> don, you speak so much sense sometimes. it'sigate to see you. >> it's great. great to be here with one of the -- >> i wish we had more time. will you come back and do a longer interview? >> we have to. >> an amazing, fascinating life.

you are 81 years old. you look about 60. i want your secret of eternal youth. you're also in time for a boxing fight on sunday. airs on hbo, the executioner bernard hopkins facing the ibf lightweight champion 31-year-old tarvoris thunder cloud. if bernard hopkins wins, he becomes the oldest champion in boxing history. is it the case of two hopes, no hope and bob hope? >> if the bull frog had wings he wouldn't bump his behind every time he hopped. what we have is a show -- by the way, i want you to come and be the guest of me and ken and my co-promoter. >> i'm the same age as bernard hopkins. >> we'll take you out in the ring when we sing the national anthem. bernard hopkins is a great athlete. >> quickly, can he win? >> he can, but i don't think he will. he has two chances, slim and none, and slim is out of town.

>> come back soon. best of luck on the fight. >> i didn't get a chance to get in. we got panama and russia. i'm bringing them together. twins. i didn't see them coming. i have obligations. cute obligations, but obligations. i need to rethink the core of my portfolio. what i really need is sleep. introducing the ishares core, building blocks for the heart of your portfolio. find out why 9 out of 10 large professional investors choose ishares for their etfs. ishares by blackrock. call 1-800-ishares for a prospectus which includes

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